Paid Ships Changes.

the apollo right lol, 5 range p class that will get you no where

Seifer...all depends on what one calls a ship ;) I know of one so-called terran missile "ship" that couldn`t put a tear in a wet paper bag...lol

Terrans have FIVE missiile ships. Just sayin

=) I think discussion with everyone on the forum about ship design is open and fair =) Kudos to the staff that thought about it =)

i think i win 1 out of every 5 battles vs gaurd on defense, and thats only because they has a fair portion of queens or kings in their fleet that met a gruesome fate.....

MD...what you ar suggesting is turn a Terran into a spammer. One of the better aspects of Terran is it`s a strong fleet IF you don`t spam. It`s a nicely balanced force of ships, not great, not bad. the strength is in having it stacked. i don`t attack much...and if attacked by a spammer, the first two stacks may go `poof`, but the rest come in and make the kill.

With the Huns...a terran has to a) spam Tyrs and b) attack on aggresive. Which then sets you up for being whiplashed by another race. And ain`t no way a Terran is going to successfully have a winning defense against a Guard leading Huns. You can tell me they can until the cows come home...but ask anyone playing terran and I`m positive they`ll say the same. Huns = Terran killers.

And if you`re attacking a Guard with tyrs leading and on aggressive...want to venture the answer if the Guard is leading something other than Huns?

if Terran paid had a choice of one ship extra from any race...I`d go out and find me a Hun killer to stack with. But that won`t happen because y`all feed off of Terrans for planets and capture our Hercs, Tyrs and Nirvs. You didn`t have the Terrans feeding half the frippin` empires out there, it`d be a mess. (Note: I`m not complaining, just telling it as it is)

No apologies needed, we are all grateful for the work you and the rest of the staff put into this game.

I would like to apologize Sibi after taking the time to do more extensive testing on the cronus design i noticed the design is actually alot more powerful then it first seemed.

Our intent with the improvements are to improve and rebalance them to be more fitting for what there supposed to be (as well as paid ships) was not our intent for any of them to be this strong we will also do a full review of the other ships just incase

Given that fact cronus will be taken back to the drawing board

Everyone should play all server and be of different race.. What goes against u in rt eg might be going for u in eg slow..

Ok I agree, miners do fairly well (defensively) with chlor/livid/epi.
It still slaughters Terrans though. From even PR fenrir is the only ship that defensively beat it on careful, which I think makes it very spammable.

But I stand down, staff surely put a lot of effort into the testing so lets by all means try it out.

i like the cronus upgrades i dont think they are op for rt . i dont play tb so no idea.
honestly i dont play with numbers or test stuff i just play the game.
So i think since these upgrades were suggested by people who DiD crunch numbers and who did do numerous tests. I think we should give them a try, we can always come back and snip some off if they prove to be to op.

No I gladly admit im not a huge fan of making ships in the sim and testing them. I just remember when the new paid ships were introduced I thought virals drew the lucky straw, and seing how much Cronus seem to be improved in this update I just think it gets very OP towards other races than guards.

I may very well be wrong, but until Im proved so I maintain my scepticism.

lol "the overall impact to TB".

Why dont I dig just up the holy grail for you as well :-)

Im sure you know infinitely more than me about how this performs in various simulated battles with whatever used or unused ship. But you asked for comments about the proposed changes, and when I see the cronus, which is already a very nice ship in my book, getting buffed to an extent I really dont find reasonable, I speak my mind. If you dont care, then just go ahead and implement them.

As I said, I dont see the reason to buff Zen either. If you ask for peoples oppinion then please listen and take what you can use from the discussion, theres no reason to pretend to be an all knowing oracle.

kk Sibi i await to see the data/statistics you`ve gathered from testing the design with some soild examples of how it would perform vs the current cronus and the overall impact to TB.

@BW

I agree that guards have been buffed from whatever it was back in 03 which I know nothing about. The recent buildrate update eliminated much of this and were really needed. Guards main issue is their economy, which for all TB servers mean that you will have to be unexplorable with a huge base PR in order to be able to do something useful in the ranks... or you will have to be Donster and dig/research for 8 years.

On RT thats not an issue because of gordos, planet transfers, extra loyalty awarded for some weird reason and what not, which is why there are numerous explorable huge income guards around. On RT the proposed cronus wont be a problem to handle for guards, but how about every other race? The combination of high range, capture, chemical damage and 55% ECM mod makes it extremely spammable. I thought staff were trying to move in a different direction,

These changes work for all servers, not only RT where there are plenty of guards to keep the virals in place, but on TB I would call the proposed cronus seriosly OP!

BW has a point. In my opinion ever since I started playing (which was when virals forfeited the right to RE D.class), virals have been a balanced, if not somewhat underpowered race.

That being said, I`m not sure if giving them a souped up cronus is the way to go...The problem with virals has always been upkeep/economy, and not the lack of good ships (I recall the borr was super boosted in terms of BR last update too :S)

@Sibiriangun

Total Ship ignoring neutral ships open to all races.

With Starbases:

Terrans have 16 ships
A.Miners have 17 ships
Collectives have 9 ships
Virals have 12 ships
Marauders have 14 ships
Guardians have 14 ships

Without Starbases:

Terrans have 14 Ships
A.Miners have 14 Ships
Collectives have 8 ships
Virals have 11 ships
Marauders have 14 ships
Guardians have 13 ships


Number of Capitals (Max possible shown for Virals) { Capitals being counted as Battleships and above OR where buildrate meets requirement of 50k pr per turn used. Starbases also ignored in this showing }

Terrans have 4 Capitals

A.Miners have 6 Capitals

Marauders have 3 Capitals

Guardians have 12 Capitals < All but Tourm are faster then 50k pr a turn

Virals have 7 Capitals < This choice also means all but 2 ships are capitals

Collectives have 1 Capital

Nothing from the above points to Virals being more overpowered then any other race currently and nothing like Virals used to be.

I will excuse the fact you have NOT been here since 2003, and so you are unaware of the way Guardian/Viral used to be long before any of our changes.

Most astounding differences:

Virals used to be able to have guardian ships <- you may ask someone from 2003 onward if you don`t believe me on that.

Virals used to have D class and G class ships

Virals V.Borr, and V.Chiron used to be 9 range.

Guardians only `useful` ships used to be Li, Ruby, And Tourm

L.Emerald used to be 120k pr and have about 10k damage (and has always had 9 range)

The other l class ships were roughly all about as useless/unused as ships can get only being used as dummies 100% of the time.

The only useful spam ship besides Li, Ruby, and Tourm was G.Corun

Back during these times the two single most overpowered races were of course Viral and Guardian. During the following time to today ShatterdDreams and me have personally headed up nearly every nerf you`ve seen to viral including upkeep increases, and indirect nerfs which were for rebalancing maru ships upkeep to be proper for the race but i don`t count maru rebalancing as a nerf to viral.

Also during this time guardian has only received minor nerfs to Ruby and Tourm while the other ships have been buffed.

With all that being said I could post every bit of data I have about ship interaction between races including data of viral performance vs every other race but i`m not going to bother for the simple fact that i`ve not see any data showing one way or the other why any of these changes would be bad or overpowered.

Now if someone wanted to provide statistical data off how the V.Cronus redesign would perform in theory for why it`d be a bad redesign overall i would be more then happy to review it and go back to come up with a new redesign myself with full testing.

Edited by BadWolf on 2012-01-07

Can we change the description on this topic from "purposed" to "proposed"? I don`t know if I am the only one, but it is really bothering for some odd reason. That`s all I have to add.