Perm BR increase poll results

now that`ll make explos on normal easy...

imo, when the staff is ready for such an undertaking, open a discussion about positive, realistic, and, to borrow the word, utilitarian update ideas and start with the most promising, and no one would fault you for using VM to accomplish this

Way to take it out of context just a tad there FFOD. Anyhow anything that I say is just for constructive criticism and meant really to play the other side/devil`s advocate, while still keeping an open mind.

Anyhow to my points
1) Rather kill 2 birds with one stone, less of a headache for me and the community
2) Given some ships and such, updating and tweaking will take more time, rather sacrifice my hours clicks on servers and focus elsewhere like on this project as in updating/testing on more ships since we are increasing many of their BR`s.
3) I will look into other ship updates/suggestions as long as they are good/criticism etc etc.
feel free to pm me on RT - Omegian - no BS, ill be saving it in a word and pasting it as necessary for my future logging and communication purposes if/when this update project does go ahead if decided by staff and the community
4) Anything I say is not concrete, but this is how I would operate things as I know others who have done this will operate differently from me whether not to VM/Freeze thyself etc.

So, this is just my opinion at this time.

i think a true update would be where we started a new thread and someone with forum edit power just opens the discussion and all of the good ideas get added to the top of the page, after a week or so all of the ideas get done and that would be an "update"

i think build rate issues are a PART of an update, but trying to label it as an update so as to say "you just had an update! wait another few years" would be unfair

ALSO I would like to see collective race get a new ship.. preferably 9 range w/ missile damage.

I had to read Omegian`s post twice, but I think I get what he`s saying. First I`ll try to translate into what`s easier for ME to understand so you know what I`m addressing...

This 2x - 3x thing may happen and we may like it or we may not. GC players and game itself ultimately could use something significant enough to be called an UPDATE. Simply 2xing Build Rates is not an UPDATE. Key word: UPDATE. So, why don`t we hit 2 birds with 1 stone and sort of change game a bit by increasing the build rates AND simultaneously sort of do a "revamping" of guardian race.

The question is, with these changes would the GC community consider this an UPDATE? Key word: UPDATE! No more bit.chng from us like "oh we get no updates, wah wah wah." ALSO if said guide of admin is in CC and VM`d with clusters and has 1 on border, then responds by VMing....We are not allowed to say its because he is using VM so save his butt, it is because said player is working on the game to improve game play for everyone so APPRECIATE THAT!

So that is how I interpreted Omegians post. With that said. My response would be... IF the TIME AND WORK was put in to do something about making all your slow building ships faster, all ships in general faster building, guardian race "revamped" and some tweaks/changes/surprises to other races were made... YES that would be considered an Update and I can`t see any reason to not consider that an UPDATE.

In words I can understand: That would be AWESOME for me (selfish), all other players (selfless), and the game itself(utilitarian)!!!

I should make 2 notes about this, before further discussion continues on another subject about guardians.

If/What If this were to happen and the BRs were more on par, not say easier, but more manageable to get to guardian PR BR`s, but not to where guardians can still outbuild easily. How would you feel about that? For instance it might take X turns to build enough missile ships to kill 300 rubys, but it make take 2-3x less now, but the ruby is still the same BR, or slightly modified. Given, some ships will need mod changes on guards and other races as because of these "what if/if" changes.

Also, it has been noted in the other general discussion about guardians about incomes/upkeep. Well, thats kind of low key and off the radar, however something did pop to my mind was about mineral miner production and tax miner. Because of the increase in BRs, do you think there are enough mineral miners as is on TB servers to compensate for the extra demand of mins or even enough mineral miners? I ask that to all players

Third, I would like to ask a question and please answer it how you wish. Because this testing and modifying will take time. I suspect a 2 week timetable if we were to do this before finalization. Why 2 weeks, well it will most likely 3 days - 1 week for the tweaks/testing. We would then post our results/tweaks and let you all decide and probably go with a 2nd round of tweaks depend on the criticism/critiques/suggestions. Anyhow back to my question : If this passes the tests and looks good for a first round try out, will you think we have completed an large update that was needed for this game? Also, will you understand if some guides/mods/admins VM/freeze to focus more on this project versus other things? As I for one would rather focus on this and rarely play on a project as important as this honestly

Done with question/rant

*shrugs* I`d love to see something like the Light class ships, or everything smaller than a Destroyer increased in BR. Not to the point they are OP, but some of them really could use some improvement.

Yes there would be alot of tinkering, I mean the build rate thing is doable, would mean some ship updates, mod changes etc etc, you would want to scale ship builds to be more in par to guardians, while keeping caps the quickest to build, but then like cruisers being like 80% of 1 herc in PR for example, so sometimes it might be a weird 2.33x or 1.66x etc etc, whichever will work out best, sometimes you can`t just do a straight 2x-3x when you look at current ship mods and do some paper/napkin math.

Rag, just use alt codes for Anàlysis :P

I didn`t mean even them out completely. I only meant where as a straight 2x BR increase would enlarge the gap by 2x instead curve it so the gap only increase by say 1.5x or 1.75x. To encourage stacking a tad more.

Your best bet is to curve the increase by a certain factor, I haven`t the slightest clue as to what numbers to use though. Basically All I`m implying is an overall minimum 2x bonus to the buildrates but then the smaller ships get a larger bonus to keep the pr gap with in reasonable limits.

Example: lyth x2 build rate while apollo might get x3 or x4.

Reasoning behind this is an overall buildrate increase is a great idea as it adds life to the game but not compensating for the expanding pr gap just means people will do as they have always done just faster.

This also more fairly keeps guards in check as instead of just giving them a 2x buildrate increase while everyone else gets 3x.

not-smart lag

Edited by Omegian on 2011-08-10

@ Grant, you know I got the point the first time, however it seems you really don`t read my point and think outside the box. Anyhow, Ive explained my reasoning from reliving the last building event like this and still open to opinions.

@ Rag "Newb ships"? 500 planet empires and cash reserves, most 500 planet empires, heck even well set up 200 planet empires can stay afloat for a long time to keep spamming. Yes it would take maybe 2 months for them to use up their cash reserves to maybe change their fleet strategy, but I guess we will see.

Darn good idea Arch - I look at the Maru ships that on paper are good but realistically I`ll never use due to their PATHETIC BR (examples below)

If I had the option to use them it`d make a hell of a difference - it`s an absolute joke to consider that using 45 turns each worth of 4 of my ship types barely makes 1mil PR!

Eel - 4,500 ships 45 turns = 319,500pr
Manta - 3,600 ships 45 turns = 309,600pr
Ray - 3,150 ships 45 turns = 258,300pr
Piranha 450 ships 45 turns = 170,550pr

total: 180 turns to get to 1,057,950pr <---- What a JOKE!

ArchAng3l touches on a good point. Not only are the build rates slow for many smaller ships (esp Maru!), but who uses Illites, Apollos, Light Corvettes or Light Frigates? Except as fillers in spams, they don`t get used because they stink. Maybe some ships in each race could be remade to act defensively against the more spammable ships in the game. This may help with lower PR fighting at least, where spamming is worst.

how about we jus increase the br of small ship? in the past we always reduce the br of cap ship to reduce stacking.. maybe making small ship faster will motivate people to stack.. close the br gap between the big and small ship.. starting for all neutral ship, then proceed on to race ship if opinion is good.