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Nerf Lyth

Started by MajorDinero · 09/04/2011 · 04:07 AM · 87 replies · 1 read
M MajorDineroOP
OP 09/04/2011 · 04:07 AM
At some point, we have to ask ourselves: is GC supposed to be an economy game or a skill based combat game?

Because right now, it`s very much an economy game, and with ships like lyth, it makes things even worse.

As long as you build up an economy properly, or choose an economy heavy race (aminer) then you can spam to your hearts delight and win without having to think.

Should we nerf lyth, or accept that economy > skill in fighting?
F Freelancer
10/04/2011 · 11:22 PM
I type in normal text most of the time, arent you proud of me ;)
Well i see your point of why you want it nerfed MD, just like you i can hold a 40 million power Lyth spam. If your A.miner & you dont like using it then dont, i only use it for guard or fast power once in a blue moon. I dont like it much, there are far better ships to build. And MD im sure you can slowly switch those Lyth with any other type of ship you want, its your choice to keep Lyth or build something else in their place.

Also if your finding it to easy to stay on top of everyone, why not switch sides or fight the whole server solo, give yourself a challenge instead of sitting high enjoying the easy life of having fedmates that got your back or got the ranks. Sounds to be your rich & bored & tired of having it so easy.
M MajorDineroOP
10/04/2011 · 11:06 PM
I wish I had some shiny brown/yellow text so I could make this point stand out:

I have nothing to gain from lyth being nerfed, I am actually one of the people using lyth spams aggresively, which is why I think it should be changed. In the past, it seems that changes have always happened because a player is having trouble beating something and complain (UWs, angel on viral etc). But I am the player on the other side, using what I think are cheap and unfair tactics.

Sounds to me like freelancer doesn`t want lyth to get nerfed because he is a miner and he likes how it is nice and OP ;)

I`m just keeping it real here, folks.
M MajorDineroOP
10/04/2011 · 11:01 PM
Freelancer: I am the one doing the lyth spamming @ fast server. I don`t think it`s fair for me to keep on spamming 1 ship and keep on winning. I could post all my battle logs, but I think you know what I mean.

I don`t have trouble dealing with lyth spams, because people are usually too poor to spam it too high, and I play high PR range only. I don`t think it`s fair that I should be able to spam it so high, just because I am rich.


Yes, I think miner is the best race on GC, with guard being a close second. Miner could use a nerf, after all:

1) they make the most money
2) they have the most versatile/reliable incomes, depending on the server (tax for TB, mineral for RT...CG for most servers)
3) they have the best ship, lyth
4) they can UW and have UW ship rewards (guards can`t)
5) and oh yeah, they are the only race besides guard that can full 10 stack defensively at a rate of 40k PR/turn.
F Freelancer
10/04/2011 · 11:00 PM
Quick Reminder, Lyth overall probably has been the most worked on ship throughout the years, its been balanced & rebalanced several times. Its fine the way it is, asking for it to be changed for personal gain is ridiculous.
F Freelancer
10/04/2011 · 10:54 PM
I doubt Lyth is going to run this game into the crabper, it sounds like its running you into the crabper & you cant deal with it. Some say Lyth is OP, others say its balanced & some say its both. And saying A.miner is an unbalanced race because of Lyth with its barely OP status & its major upkeep is the most ridiculous things i heard in awhile.

Also if anyone is siding with MajorDinero, especially those older players, about how A.miner was so nerfed & useless ship wise in the past & we had A.miner die off as a race, the galaxy suffered for over a year from the lack of resources being produced by the few A.miner there were. You nerf any race enough it will die out, you OP any race enough it becomes popular. Simple as that. And i guess my first statement could be wrong, Lyth could be the ship that runs the game into the crabper, nerf it enough its useless A.miner lose an advantage & lose an incentive to play A.miner as a race.
C Crack
10/04/2011 · 10:45 PM
I wamt tracione to be effective again.. Bwahahahaha..
M MajorDineroOP
10/04/2011 · 10:08 PM
Yes, I am saying that lyth should either cost more money, or be nerfed. OR, we can just accept the fact that the game is going in the cra.pper and economy is far more important than game skill.

Lol, at your 2nd point, BTCs, are the newbies way of fighting :P (besides, I can BTC too if it came down to that). Solves nothing.

Mineral miners are balanced on TB. They are OP on RT, but I have suggested ways to balance them out without changing the race.

Eg: introducing an artifact like the majordinero that will destroy a certain percentage of mineral stores. There, now nothing is safe and you can`t store cash anywhere. Why buy mins? ( I realize that empires will still max out on cash and hoard mins, but nothing we can do about that) OFc this suggestion probably will never happen due to pragmatic reasons.
F Freelancer
10/04/2011 · 10:01 PM
MajorDinero if your saying you want Lyth to cost more in upkeep your crazy.
And having a good income stream is what runs an empire, you can only spend as much as you make.

Solution to your TB server problem, find a rich high income stream ally, then BTC your rich buddy up to take out the Lyth spammer, cant be to hard, to every problem there is a solution.

If you want to neft something A.miner, nerf mineral A.miner lol. I`ll thank you on that one.
M MajorDinero
10/04/2011 · 09:04 PM
Well, we all know that lyth is a great ship but it can be countered (although, in my opinion not very effectively, turn for turn).

the main thing that stands in the way of lyth spamming is cost, which was my original argument.

I`ve read through the points that others have made about other factors having a factor in success, and I`m not convinced. Of course fighting plays a role in being successful, but it pales in comparison to the amount of economy you have.

And to the people who say that you need to fight in order to hoard good planets: Thanks for actually proving my argument. You don`t need skill to fight once you hoard good planets. All you gotta do is lyth spam, and that takes no skill and no brains, but you will be able to afford to lyth spam, unlike those poor guys without any planets/income.

@DarkestGuardian: all you need on TB is a good income stream and you are set to rule the ranks. You don`t need skill at all. You don`t REALLY need artis either.
P PistolPete
10/04/2011 · 08:12 PM
I`ve fought against lyth and I`ve been a miner using the lyth too.. I`ve always thought it was a great cap ship. But from the experiences i got with it, i dont think it needs to be nerfed.
R raven
10/04/2011 · 06:44 PM
if you nerf lyth u better start nerfing everything else
D Darkseid
10/04/2011 · 05:20 PM
[Removed] you know better

Edited by Raistilin on 2011-04-10
D DrKsTGuArDiAn
09/04/2011 · 07:27 PM
The market, fightig, artis, eliminating border farms from your enemies reach are all part of being a successful empire on rt. When a serious uw threat comes around don`t some empires corner the market to bring it to a standstill?

Their are many ways to beat your adversary because no matter how good of a fighter you are on the field their will always be someone better than you on any givin day. Their are times when you face an enemy who has you pinned down or just seems to out stack you everytime so you need to resort to other tactics in order to win.

Wether its fighting, economic, artifact, or premptive you need to be decent in all these to stand a chance at long term hoarding and rank holding.
F FistOfNoRemorse
09/04/2011 · 07:20 PM
in theory if your that great of a fighter you dont need to explore for good stuff just take everyone elses
M MajorDinero
09/04/2011 · 07:11 PM
Also, to the people who actually think that you can play GC and be successful without a proper income.

I welcome you to try fighting me on fast and ultra. You`ll need to be rich to keep up with me in both servers.
M MajorDinero
09/04/2011 · 07:10 PM
*LtCommander:The suggestion of adding no defense works great in theory.

However, we need to be careful about since it will mean that UWs could be easier to pull off (try fighting against a UW when all your cap ships melt and do 0 dmg because of no defense)
E elemental
09/04/2011 · 02:14 PM
this is GC. this game was designed for combat (at least thats what it says in the description for the game lol). i was a decent miner at one point, and yes, the lyth was overpowered. but so are a lot of other ships. the biggest problem is how spamming > stacking. if we were all stacking 90-100% of the time, we probably wouldnt be having this discussion. i just wish there was a way to fix the game mechanics so stacking > spamming. even with a good stack, you can lose to a single ship spam.

so do i think the lyth should be nerfed: absolutely. but so should every other cap ship out there. i know the idea of adding no defense to the ones that dont already have it has been tossed around a bit, but i think it would be simpler to just go with another option: buff ships that arent used as much.

on a completely different note, fighting skill CAN make a good economy, as long as you invest some time in the economy as well. i should know. im a collective. we live off of fighting. you just have to invest a bit of time in both. it doesnt take that long. im only on GC about 1 hr a day (sometimes less), and yet i still have a decent income.
L LtCommander
09/04/2011 · 01:49 PM
I do agree with you MajorDinero. I can only talk from a RT point of view.

I feel the lyth need two things done to balance the ship for both viral and miner.

1/ lower its upkeep so that a stacking viral can use it and help encourage stacking.
2/ add No Defense to the ship to balance it.

This should add to better overall game play and make the ship somewhat less desirable for spamming.

just my 2 cents <(..)>
W WhatIsTheMatrix
09/04/2011 · 12:11 PM
Its all about where you fight your battles...

Economic superiority is just as lethal as massive quantities of various war machines. You can either starve your enemy by bleeding his economy dry from market control, or you can simply obliterate him with a skillfully calculated fleet tactic.
D DraconianParadise
09/04/2011 · 08:49 AM
Everyone should use DP`s solution... be equally awesome at everything !
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