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Lower Class Ship Review

Started by Ragnarok · 28/03/2011 · 12:59 PM · 56 replies · 2 reads

R RagnarokOP

OP 28/03/2011 · 12:59 PM #1

I think the following ships need a review and a complete overhaul by the admins, or justification as to why are good as is and explicit explanation of what their exact "role" or justification of their use in any fleet out there.

M.Hal
Light fighter-drone
Light Corvette
M.Alium
M.Illite
F.Axe
Light Frigate
C.Gemini
C.Aries
T.Ryu-jin ( actually a pretty good ship, but still under used)
T.Maru
P.Apollo
T.Sentouki
P.Odin

Eel
Manta
Ray
Piranha

C.Taurus
C.Cancer
F.Spear
C.Leo

(last 4 added just for good measure since these are also underused ships)

If you notice, these are most of the ships that are either under used for one reason or another. We need to review WHY they deserve to stay as they are. If any of the ship building artists (the admins will actually LISTEN to and actually know what they`re doing) would be willing to take a look at these ships and remake them, that would be a great help to the game.

I think neutral class should be the class every race can use to balance out whatever weaknesses they have in their overall ship structure. A good neutral class missile ship is also lacking as well. Maybe one of the "under used" neutral class can be revamped into a missile boat that EVERYONE has access to.

U UberPansy

28/03/2011 · 04:44 PM #17

Everything that`s wrong with the culture of this game, inside this thread.

(Sorry your fun got spoiled Rag, I do think this is an important issue.)

R RagnarokOP

28/03/2011 · 04:19 PM #16

And yes, a lot HAS been done, sometimes behind the scenes. I`ve noticed little differences that have gone unpublished or announced, so i know they`re hard at work. Although sometimes it seems like the little ships get neglected a bit. But what do i know. Just a player who isn`t in the "in crowd" or knows what goes on behind the scenes. =/

R RagnarokOP

28/03/2011 · 04:13 PM #15

"ultimatum of a ship thread"? I fail to see the ultimatum. o_0

That said, it was only a (humble) suggestion for helping the game. But if you really want me to go away, just say so and i`ll go away. =/

V VeniVidiVici

28/03/2011 · 04:02 PM #14

i dont know much about ship balance etc..but i guess hes just trying to help. i do agree some ships are a little useless imo :P but if there is a team that takes care of this then let them take care of it as they have already done alot

B BadWolf

28/03/2011 · 02:49 PM #13

As a note we already have a setup for how ship updates are handled.

As well as a team who handles them.

F FistOfNoRemorse

28/03/2011 · 02:44 PM #12

add 2 range to all of them so they hit most capitals 1st

B BadWolf

28/03/2011 · 02:44 PM #11

im just going to quote omegian.

1) Stop complaining over ships that have their purpose which are dummy, flanks or priority spam ships for low pr ranges. Not high, not all ships are supposed to have operations in all pr ranges and be all equally good or not.
2) Uhm, who are you to put out this ultimatum of a ship thread and how the forum/ship edits should be done. If they needed to be done they will be handled without your bickering and instead handled by admins and modify them upon how they see it from battle logs from more than one or two people but from many people and various battle logs.
3) There really isn`t a reason to update these ships, maybe tweak one or two, but not the majority when even if these were all tweaked, they would still be used for the lower pr ranges, but not the higher ones. Tweaking is about how a ship is used in battle, not because they are better or because their build rate, but because of their strengths and weaknesses.

Edited by BadWolf on 2011-03-28

O Omegian

28/03/2011 · 02:25 PM #10

So yea, admins should appoint people to review these ships and maybe have a LIMITED round table discussion on the forum. ANYONE OUTSIDE THE APPOINTED LIST CANNOT USE THE THREAD, although it is viewable by everyone and people can send PMs to any of the participants if they have ideas that might be good.

Any unauthorized participants who post would have their posts edited and given a single warning by admin not to do it again. If they disobey again, then 3 day suspension of all accounts. Participants can be added or removed at the Admin`s discretion.

The reason I suggest this is because there is a specific philosophy that is used when designing ships and only people familiar with the intricacies of the game can really appreciate it. Only a handful of players in this tiny game really get that.

It is also to reduce flaming and off topic discussion as well.

1) Stop complaining over ships that have their purpose which are dummy, flanks or priority spam ships for low pr ranges. Not high, not all ships are supposed to have operations in all pr ranges and be all equally good or not.
2) Uhm, who are you to put out this ultimatum of a ship thread and how the forum/ship edits should be done. If they needed to be done they will be handled without your bickering and instead handled by admins and modify them upon how they see it from battle logs from more than one or two people but from many people and various battle logs.
3) There really isn`t a reason to update these ships, maybe tweak one or two, but not the majority when even if these were all tweaked, they would still be used for the lower pr ranges, but not the higher ones. Tweaking is about how a ship is used in battle, not because they are better or because their build rate, but because of their strengths and weaknesses.

Anyhow, I enjoy your endeavor

R RagnarokOP

28/03/2011 · 02:17 PM #9

Actually, just notice a mistake. No F Axe were lost against D Angel, but they still took out fewer angel than F Axe, which I think should be considered under performance considering Angel is weak to F Axe on paper.

R RagnarokOP

28/03/2011 · 02:10 PM #8

Let me give you a couple of examples of why these ships need a new look, possibly in their role as flankers.

This is purposely set up where the F Axe is intentionally wiped out if there is no-retal only ships spam attack, but did they at least take out more ships PR for PR? Let`s check the sim:

This is on normal attack (pretty aggressive for D Angel)

Attacker`s fleet
Name Units Casualties Remaining
D.Angel Battleship 1000 11 989
Eel Fighter 1 1 0

Defender`s fleet
Name Units Casualties Remaining
Large Strafez Fodder 90000 34200 55800
F.Axe Frigate 2000 0 2000

356000 PR of F. Axe lost vs 255266 PR of Angel lost. Now, if attacked head on on aggressive by angle in similar pr numbers as the F Axe, the F Axe would have won, but you don`t see that.

Let`s look at another example where Argonite spam actually attacks on AGGRESSIVE and Axe is flanking it :

A.Aragonite Dreadnought 600 56 544
F.Axe Frigate 1 1 0

Defender`s fleet
Name Units Casualties Remaining
Large Strafez Fodder 90000 10303 79697
F.Axe Frigate 2000 2000 0

281960 for argonite vs 356000 for F Axe.

So even though F. Axe is supposed to be "strong" vs Angel or Argonite, they under perform in Flanking. And F axe is a ship that already has a low build rate to start, so there is almost no incentive for a high pr fighting empire to use this ship except as a dummy. This is why they are almost never used in high pr battles.

R RagnarokOP

28/03/2011 · 02:07 PM #7

FistOfNoRemorse, that`s the point. They`d shouldn`t be dummy stack material.

And Uber, my "appointed ones thread" suggestion was for a separate topic, not this thread. If admins don`t like it, they won`t use it.

U UberPansy

28/03/2011 · 01:31 PM #6

WHY LISTEN EVERYONE
THE APPOINTED CANNOT USE THE THREAD
BETTER ROLE FLANKERS

/end transmission

F FistOfNoRemorse

28/03/2011 · 01:27 PM #5

its quite obvious what those ships are for..... dummy stacks of course.

R RagnarokOP

28/03/2011 · 01:13 PM #4

F Axe might be fine in lower pr battles, but are generally not used in higher PR battles because of their relatively low build rate, which is fine except that if you`re going to make a lower BR ship they BETTER be able to take out more of the kind ships they are designed to take out (PR for PR) before being wiped out if they are in a FLANKING ROLE (preferably twice as many, PR for PR).

After all, that`s how a "win" and a "loss" is calculated, loss of PR.

I mean all of these ships could potentially be AWESOME FLANKERS, but they aren`t. That`s the thing.

R RagnarokOP

28/03/2011 · 01:07 PM #3

E ear614

28/03/2011 · 01:03 PM #2

Cancer, axe, and Gemini are good ships for defensive battles. I use them when I play defensivly. Now the rest need to get updated a bit or at least tweat abit.

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