Dreadnought For Collective

@grantweep- ragnarok had an idea that he posted on the forum a while ago about just increasing the BR of ships destroyer and lower.

Rag, you have a lot of good points there with the stacking/spamming problem. That is how I`ve always seen it as well...why waste turns stacking or building smaller ships, when you can simply spam and be guaranteed to win colonies?

As a result, it`s very hard to actually get someone to lose colonies (unless they suck, or just go inactive)....so the game gets kinda stuck/frustrating.

I do disagree though with the equity side of things - still think that richer empires will benefit more from a linear BR increase across the board. Lets say that I can afford to lyth spam to 150 mil PR. Why would I bother `stacking` still, or building slower ships when I could just spam lyth even faster and still beat other ships turn for turn?

Elemental use R.snow and Gall and mow brig and bark, bark on top to capture the most, but Rsnow to spam up.... and this should give you a good enough capture yeild. The capture yeild i say is like 10 mill above, since if anyone bases on you... Youd be pretty lucky to capture those ships.

And yes, I realize I`m calling myself an A-Hole by revealing that last bit about MK. :P

Actually, increasing BR would make spamming cheaper for all as long as you aren`t brainless and build 100 turns of a ship you can`t afford. And it would actually encourage stacking for high base pr empires. As it currently stands, a relatively young c3 empire (or an empire with 5 c3s) has little incentive to "risk" stacking because of the high turn investment for a higher risk strategy.

Many players would much rather spend 50 turns on a spam with a high chance to get 1 planet then spend 100 turns on a balanced fleet that might end up failing. Esp when after failing, a player might only have 50-80 turns (or less) to work with on other potential targets. As a result, a player will take the easy way out and never fully develop stacking skills like he should unless he a hard core RT player

Doubling BR of all ships would lessen those risks for such empires, and while "rich empires" might build up, they would also end up with a higher "per turn" cost as well. Most empires who build up that high end up tryng to "cheat" anyways by slowly replacing expensive ships with cheap ones and just sit there researching and digging until some A-Hole finally calls their bluff.

I caught like 2 or 3 MK members doing exactly this sort of thing on slow the other day actually. It was hilarious seeing infernal with a pure runner spam and deiloche with pure fodders. :P

i agree with tikimana. im tired of having 10 different ships in my lower stacks that i cant use. i like his/her idea.

@ThEpAkIsTaNiEmPirE- the R. Snow builds decently, and its an OK ship, but as far as ships go, its still not that great. one ship doesnt make up for an entire shiplist, even if the shiplist can capture

Hmmm.. they have R.snow right.. which builds decently...

I understand why Collectives won`t get a dreadnought, because they`re supposed to work with their smaller ships and the ones they capture.
...So you know what would be so much better for conveying that: Being allowed to use 1 extra stack for each kind of R.class in the top 4 stacks.
Explanation:
- H.ships are the capture breed (all always capture)
- R.ships are the escort breed (some sometimes capture)
- so this has Collectives picking between trying-to-capture and applying-the-captured

I`m tired of having 20 different ship types and only being able to use the 10 strongest ones. I`ve had the captured *Hercules* go unused because it was number 13 in the list, and I`m on Slow server so it`s not like I have a lot of ships to capture and make this happen. The 10-ship battle mechanic suggests Collectives are better off dismantling almost everything they capture when their sizes are beneath the rest of the fleet, and this absolutely diverts us from caring to capture any ships when we`ve built up to higher ranks.

This idea would allow smaller stacks of captured ship to take place in battle, depending on how many strong groups of R.ships are available. There are only 4 classes of R.ships... so if someone is *somehow* able to get the slow-building R.Sloop into their top 4, they`d be allowed 14 ship types.

See, this gives a reason for R.Schooner, R.Pinnace, and R.Sloop to have SUCH MISERABLE buildrates! Because building them stronger than other ship types is more difficult, it would also be more rewarding. The only giveaway stack here is with R.Snow.

We never get to be enslaved with someone who reinforces us (because our income is always negative)... so we never get to have an 11-stack fight :-(
Help make up for it. R.Snow would grant us a chance to have 11-stack fights. R.Schooner and R.Pinnace would give us a hope to have 12- and 13-stack fights. R.Sloop would let us fantasize of a 14-stack fight... but probably never attain it, the same way we`ll never at

Collectives sure would like faster ships.. But remember. You chose to be this race, because of its advatages were better than its drawbacks. Very aggressive ships with capture ability is very good ships.

You cant have the best of everything. If you get faster ships, you would probably need to decrease you range on many of the ships, and decrease the dmg/PR. Or remove capture ability.

I wouldn`t mind a slight buff to Snow. But of course I wouldn`t mind a slight buff to anything because I`m collective. We build really slow, climbing sometimes takes planning and when you lose a higher pr battle it`s a little bit worse for us. You could always change race. Or delete system32...

i agree.. i need a faster way to climb.. putting schooner build rate from 12 to 8 was so dumb.. esspcially becuase it has bout the same pr as h gall

we could simply make the br of every ship under 25k pr 50k and every ship over 25k 65k...so then all ships would either build at 50k pr exactly or 65k pr exactly.

Rag if Every ship is doubled in power rating, then you are essentially changing nothing in the long run as far as how people stack. Since everything is being doubled, it would still be just as big a PR spike to spam certain ships as it ever was. Still, I like the idea. *reminisces the build-rate enhancement event*

@Rag: it`s not a terrible idea. However, what`ll end up happening is that it`ll only reduce spamming for poorer empires.

The rich empires will still be able to afford to spam.

It`s not a bad idea.

It also will never happen. Along with handfuls and handfuls of other ideas.

How long does it actually take to change the build rate for one ship, let alone all of them? I`m pretty sure it wouldn`t take longer than an afternoon or two. `_`

oh, and you have to notice that every other race has access to a ship that they can build that is larger than any collective ship. sure, collectives can capture, but still, its hard to stack with a ship that is at a set pr level or lower (i mean, if you cant bring it up into higher stacks if you want to)

too much work is what i heard.

I think what we need to do is just double build rates of every ship everywhere permanently and be done with it. No imbalance, and high base PR players might ACTUALLY have an incentive to TRY to stack instead of being forced to lean back on spams. I can`t figure out for the life of me why we can`t just do that since everyone would benefit.