Alternative to idea below

R RagnarokOP

OP 31/01/2011 · 12:55 PM #1

This is not my idea, but I feel it deserves a separate thread. Make every cap ship (and not just some ships) no-defence as well as no-retal.

Why? So that ships without no-retal (such as garuda, neutral ships, and other vanilla ships) will be able to do greater damage to spammy ships, particularly in flanking where they are currently useless do to the retal feature in the game.

This simple solution will effectively amount to a significant nerf in spamming and an overall balance gameplay a bit more in favor of stackers instead of spammers.

T ThEpAkIsTaNiEmPirE

02/02/2011 · 03:49 AM #20

Ragnok you would probably have a better chance of finding Stephen, and slapping him with a rubber duck. I would rather have the "No retal work for the first 2 stacks of the wave ", But this isnt going to work. Because re balancing major ships would take a fairly long time, Admins have a life.

F Freelancer

02/02/2011 · 01:56 AM #19

I think we should have 2 different DEATH MATCHES, the first 1.) to test out the no-retal or/and no-defense idea. 2.) to test out the increased build rate for smaller ships to be equal to capital ships.

However this would required alot of staff/admin work, so it would be awhile. My big idea to end Capital ship spamming is make Queen/King/Runner 250-500% faster, and the cost could be 500-1000% more costly, it fixes the problem. Horrible idea, lol.

R RagnarokOP

02/02/2011 · 12:30 AM #18

On a side note, this would introduce some interesting interserver strategies. xD

R RagnarokOP

02/02/2011 · 12:29 AM #17

temporary, of course. ;)

R RagnarokOP

02/02/2011 · 12:28 AM #16

GradualIncline and Freelancer I agree bring up very good points, and I see what the guides mean about re balancing ships entirely. =/

Then again, for that matter, Terran starbases, particularly the Scorpian would also become far more useful as a UW ship as well. Even the Chimera would hold its own despite the shorter range since it wouldn`t die twice every time a cap ship hits it. Pyth would also be far harder to stop as well in a UW situation.

I guess it`s up to the guides and ship design masters whether or not they want to undertake this project to make it happen. But the whole idea is that the smaller ships need more power vs caps.

And by the way, Kryo is already a pretty good replacement for Lakko in UWs anyways, albeit a bit more expensive. It`s a really annoying ship to take down as a spam as is. :P

Maybe one possibility is an automatic 300% increase in build rates for smaller ships in a UW event on all servers. Dunno how much work it is to do this for guides, but just throwing it out there. :P

T Treize

01/02/2011 · 11:06 PM #15

I bet it would promote spamming small ships.

A ArchAng3l

01/02/2011 · 07:55 PM #14

Maybe increase the br of small ship will encourage ppl to build them over those cap ship and hence promote stacking..

G GradualIncline

01/02/2011 · 12:44 AM #13

you do that and I`ll Kyro spam an UW and laugh as the Lyth and pretty much every other cap ship becomes useless. :D
Miners can only use the Calcite and Chlorite
Terrans are reduced to the P. Zeus, Thor, and Odin
Maru the Sting, Bullhead, and Tiger
Collective the Barkentine
Virals, depending on their ship list, will have nothing
Guardians would be the only ones unaffected with their Emerald

So yeah, go ahead and make cap ships no defense. It`ll make the Kyro an awesome ship to use :D Miner SBs for the win :D

Note, I just hate the idea in general, I`m just using this as an example, because I`d be the one fighting a Kyro UW, not setting one off, and I like my options better when I`m not building slow ships like the Calcite and Chlorite, since one turn of Lyth on aggressive kills one Kyro, whereas it takes 3 turns worth of Chlorite and Calcite to kill a single Kyro, letting the UWer to easily rebuild as long as he has turns and credits, and a decent support crew defending him.

M Mazuku

31/01/2011 · 07:53 PM #12

** By all ships I meant cap ships as in most cases they seem to be the most efficient to use for low pr hits on a UW

M Mazuku

31/01/2011 · 07:52 PM #11

yeah freelancer has a point. Killing a well set up UW with all your ships having no defence would become extremely hard I`d think. And I couldn`t do my 40 turns of pyth, attack and repeat for hours strategy for any effect =o

F Freelancer

31/01/2011 · 07:19 PM #10

I like this idea, it doesnt only apply to one race but all the races.

But i agree with SD, this would cause some major re-balancing of the game, i also like SD idea with % to flanking, and i think that would be easier to add the % idea to stacks in battle, but then again races like guard / viral would have re-balancing issues i think slightly.
But yes the main reason use the big capital ships, spamming or other wise is the No retaliation.
But i do love the idea for more than one reason, but each problem it fixes i believe it creates an equal amount of problems. Foresight & hindsight are a funny thing.

I would also point at a downside of this, if somoene sets of an UW, hitting the UW from below power will become harder.

R RagnarokOP

31/01/2011 · 04:20 PM #9

Again, remember the "Stephen" factor when posting. If an Admin can`t do it, it probably won`t get done.

T Treize

31/01/2011 · 03:28 PM #8

OR. having `no retal` only work for two stacks in a single wave. Problem DEALT WITH!!!

R RagnarokOP

31/01/2011 · 02:05 PM #7

And no you can`t stop it, but this can still result in spammers LOSING more than they currently do.

R RagnarokOP

31/01/2011 · 02:04 PM #6

Which of course requires STEPHEN to implement, hence the reason I didn`t mention it.

As things stand now, a lot of spam fleets succeed because they are able to take out lower level stacks that normally they shouldn`t be able to take out. You spam pure lyth against a balanced fleet, and it would win entirely because it was able to wipe out not only the top 2 stacks, but also 1-3 other stacks of ships as well!!. Even no-retal ships aren`t always exempt, cuz if the top stack was say F Sword, and it got wiped out due to retal before the cap ship (say lyth) had its turn, then the next flanking ship would be taken out even if it had no retal on it!!

These are some of the less appreciated advantages that spamming has to offer. By eliminating them, spamming will have much fewer advantages and those of us who stack will start seeing more victories in what might be sometimes narrow defeat situations in favor of the spammer (where sometimes the losses are similar, but the spammer killed slightly more PR worth of fleet than you did and thus won). The best way to remove this advantage is to put no-defense on cap ships.

O OpvsDei

31/01/2011 · 01:57 PM #5

lol. you cant really stop spamming, right?

S ShatterdDreams

31/01/2011 · 01:31 PM #4

the only sound way to stop spamming would be to increase the damage of flanking stacks by a % depending on how many flanking stacks exist during each wave.

Islander Admin

Admin 31/01/2011 · 01:17 PM #3

Except not.

S ShatterdDreams

31/01/2011 · 01:16 PM #2

that would take alot of work rebalanced ships, not to mention it wouldn`t put a dent in spamming

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