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Started by OpvsDei · 06/01/2011 · 01:20 AM · 37 replies · 1 read
O OpvsDeiOP
OP 06/01/2011 · 01:20 AM
hey everyone,

If you have time and patience, have a look at this video about us and the planet we live on...now don`t jump to conclusion, i hear a lot of people say ``boring`` and ``get lost tree hugger`` and what not but i think its our duty as conscious humans to be able to communicate to the next generations about our past present and future on this planet. And I am aware for most people this subject aint something new but do you as an individual do anything to change your lifestyle and influence other lifestyles to make this earth a more pleasant environment to live in?!

I am aware many dont give a darn, you`ll say you live once and want to enjoy it, fair enough, but have a look at what is really happening to our planet (and i am not pointing out on global warming) and is affecting our very mind body and soul which in the end everyone should be concerned of unless u are a masochist.

So have a look at this free movie which is insanely well edited and filmed and tell me what you think. If i had kids old enough to understand, id be the first to show this to them and i think this would be a great movie to show in school too.

Cheers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbDmOt-vIL8
S Slavyzz
08/01/2011 · 02:57 AM
You keep misinterpreting what I`m trying to say as something else. I`m done repeating it.
F Freelancer
08/01/2011 · 02:45 AM
http://www.examiner.com/environmental-policy-in-seattle/increase-of-killer-ocean-dead-zones-caused-by-global-warming

Another Dead Zone Article. I like the part it says about the Gulf of Mexico at the end, which wiki talks about differently.
F Freelancer
08/01/2011 · 02:35 AM
Salvyzz nothing is predetermined. But you wont be seeing many endangered species making a come back. And dont go far back as the dinosaurs, cause they were wiped out by a meteor & that was a natural disaster that wiped out all but the basic life forms.

If you walk out into the woods, you wont see any animal making a golf course for their pleasure or profit, you just wouldnt. Nature is beautiful, sometimes its not. And just because its not beautiful does that give us the right to fix it and make it pretty? All other animals on earth only use what they need, and only kill what they plan to eat. There is order to chaos, some call it the cycle of life. I never read reports/history on our first parks, but your proving my point how we mess with the natural order of things & upset the balance and how drastic the the affects can be.

Alot of plant & Ocean life species are part of our ecosystem we rely on for nourishment, and those lesser life forms cant endure the drastic global changes forever. Have you heard of Ocean Dead Zones, well its interesting reading, but like i said earlier about ocean life being important to our ecosystem it does play a role.

Wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)
has some good reading on the dead-zone stuff, sadly it doesnt say much about humans being the problem/cause for dead zones, but if you read at the end what the did for the black sea, you can see how man kind plays a role in cleaning up their own waste and reducing waste into the water affected see life in the black sea.

Really this is getting old... POINT IS WE ARE PART OF MAN KIND. WE ARE KILLING OTHER SPECIES & ENVIRONMENTS generally without the disregard of how that affects all live including our own long term, and we are slowly adding to a local and global problem. Clean air, clean water, usable natural resources are being depleted and their is already some countries OR part of countries without those things.
S Slavyzz
08/01/2011 · 01:32 AM
I feel like people just skimmed what I originally said...

The idea that humans could destroy all other life on this planet before themselves is ridiculous. Species natural time to become extinct? You think nature is following some predetermined path? Everyone seems to think I am against keeping the environment suitable for us which leads me to believe you aren`t really hearing what I`m saying (and that makes sense because you can`t hear me at all).

You walk out into the woods and you take in your surroundings. You think you are in the presence of some beautiful harmony. But you aren`t. You are in the presence of beautiful chaos, where every organism is trying to get a leg up from all the others. Every species is trying to get better at destroying the others or is unwittingly destroying itself.

No system remains constant, and no system is permanent. I would suggest looking at reports of how we originally tried to manage some of our first national parks. How we tried to manipulate the different species to form a "balance" which ended up killing off species instead of saving them. Running blind at a problem is worse than doing nothing, far worse.
F Freelancer
07/01/2011 · 07:43 PM
sees spelling errors already.
F Freelancer
07/01/2011 · 07:42 PM
Slavyzz there is very few things natural that human beings do thats natural. Humans is the only species on earth that plunders the natural resources of the planet faster than they can be replaced naturally, in fact we also prevent nature from renewing natural resources by destroying the environments in which some of theses are naturally made in. We have killed off other species in our short history on earth and it wasnt their natural time to be extinct, but we made that so by hunting them down and killing them slowly, or simply by slaughtering them as a means to an end.

Nearly all cures are found in nature... from the being of time and even now in days... it makes me sad when i hear they are killing more of the Amazon or any other massive major forest or wild life area that is unique in animal & planet life cause were killing our own chance as a race see, find and discover the great mysteries that natural form OR found in nature that isnt found anywhere else on earth.

Point is Human beings hurt the local and global environment. We mine every resource dry and generally dont do a thing about helping it replenish. We are killing other species in many ways, and we are messing up the natural ecosystems and disturbing the natural food chain. Global warming is another problem, and its caused by our worlds waste industry & our everyday cars and other products. We could right the Global warming problem in less than 5-10 years if the world retrofired its factories/refineries/industries & the average person only bought no pollutant products, or disposed of waste properly instead of some lazy bum throwing stuff in rives/lakes/oceans.

There is only so much damage the environment can take before its irreversible, and by then all life on the planet will start dying off, including us human beings.
S Slavyzz
07/01/2011 · 04:40 PM
I`m not saying that Earth is eliminating us, and I pointed out that the croc has changed significantly over 200 million years.

I`ll reiterate that people who believe there is any sort of long standing balance to nature aren`t being that realistic. Systems emerge and collapse to be replaced by new systems. I think it is presumptuous to believe we have a firm grasp on the intricacies of our own world. We need to focus on what we know, and what we are really trying to do, before we can make any sort of headway. Otherwise we are just going to weed ourselves out accidentally.
O OpvsDeiOP
07/01/2011 · 11:08 AM
so you say that a specie like the homo sapiens, only 300 thousand years old is already bound to be destroyed and that by natural means? how can a crocodile specie which is about 200million years old live so long and now also be at risk of extinction alongside many other very old species.

i understand your point, if this is what we have to go through, and its all a natural cycle then so be it, but why so fast? i mean there is a significant change in the past 100years or so, and 100 years are not a lot for this planet. like you said, we are just new comers. i think it would be silly saying its the planet rebelling against human kind and is fighting to destroy it. i think its the other way around rather...

i think this discussion is also about your awareness of actions. fair enough, you do not throw your trash out of the window, which i find normal as you wouldn`t throw the trash around in your bed or living room either. but when you buy and consume products, are you conscious of what you consume, of what that product has to go through before it ends up in your store and finally in your plate or if its just an object, in your life! i mean many people just blindly take part in consuming without actually realizing what it cost the planet to produce certain things.

i think nothing is infinite and like this movie explains, there is a certain balance on this planet and its our call to keep moving with the flow and natural balance, even more so if we are new comers to this planet. we got choices to make. we all have the choice if we want to take a bicycle or a car for example. its your own decision, so we all take part it in it. if we want it or not.

but like hb said, in many cases i guess it comes down to laziness. i see young women drive huge mercedes cars to drive 10min and go home for lunch. everyone does the same and it causes chaos when there are metros, trams, skytrains, roads designed to walk safely from point A to point B. its all up to a status symbol
S Slavyzz
07/01/2011 · 02:30 AM
I think a lot of people over estimate our ability to manage something like a forest. Our environment is constantly in flux, and the "balance" that a lot of people talk about isn`t actually existent. Temperatures change and the atmosphere changes composition. In the grand scheme of the Earth`s history we are new comers, just stepping onto the field.

I think it is important to say what we mean on this topic. We want to attempt to control factors so that Earth continues to be a suitable environment for mankind. We aren`t trying to give back to the Earth or be one with nature, because nature is never designed to keep any one species in existence permanently. Maybe we don`t die out completely, perhaps we`d change in some vital way and something similar to us lived on for awhile. Notice we don`t have any fifty foot crocodiles anymore.

Now my survival instinct is intact. That coupled with my loyalty to my fellow humans makes me want to work towards a better tomorrow. But I think we are seriously kidding ourselves if we think we are trying to make a better tomorrow for anything but ourselves. We are always talking about the species we are destroying, but by making these changes, by altering the natural course that Earth might have taken, we may be destroying future species that would have emerged from the chaos. Some of them possibly infinitely more intelligent than us.

I definitely don`t shed a tear for these hypothetical sentient beings, I just like to keep a broad perspective on this topic. I don`t really rally for or against change (although I try not to chuck ALL my trash out my window). This debate for and against drastic change to the way we treat our environment will, I believe, be the turning point for our species. We will collectively decide whether to make the effort to attempt to save our species (it is most certainly not guaranteed to work) or we will decide to live for ourselves only and be a factor in our planets next global shift.
F FlashysDomain
06/01/2011 · 10:14 PM
Don`t get me started or you`ll have a thread gadzillions pages long. But my view is Man`s treatment of his/her environment is one of short term cost/benefit. And future cost is diminished in real valu when greed and comfort are at stake. Take a forest .... a Class 4 management plan will utilize the forest for all its product over the years, each product harvested on a self sustainable cycle. Raw timber being viewed as the most costly product of a forest and thus the smallest in amount harvested at any given time. Over the course of 20 years, for example, one can realize a net profit of say ...$20,000. But clear cutting for timber alone will realize a net profit of $5,000 for that 20 year period. But it`s in the hand immediately.

So greed and immediate gratification wins out, the timber is cut, the rest of the product of the forest lost. And [people want to rape and pillage, take the money and run to another place not yet destroyed...leaving the carnage behind. And politicians play into this to get elected. Take the money and run because somehow people can be convinced it`s their property..and conveneiently forgetting and never reminded it`s part of The Commons and everyone shares the cost.

A very good short read is the paper The Commons, by Barry Commoner. Highly recommended.
H HoneyBucket{HH}
06/01/2011 · 11:36 AM
mostly laziness, if people weren`t so lazy they wouldn`t be so ignorant.... speaking of most situations, not all, some people just don`t have access to information.... but for the most part people are ignorant by their own doing, because they do not seek to learn or to know.... they just dig their heads into the sand every day and hope that they make it to the next..... blah
M Mazuku
06/01/2011 · 11:17 AM
All of the worlds problems stem from ignorance and lazyness.
O OpvsDeiOP
06/01/2011 · 09:52 AM
yes but HB, i wish i could agree with it and sooner or later someone will create a virus that affects only us humans but in means of war we will take to our deaths most of the other living species too...i don`t know if thats the right strategy. I think the answer lies in us and our kids and next generations. they only have got the power to change something...its just frustrating.

how many times here in the roads of bangkok do i see people sleep in their cars with the engine on for the air conditioning or how many people throw their crab into rivers cause they dont know what to do with the trash. and i think most of it comes from lack of education.
K Kyril
06/01/2011 · 08:38 AM
where is the `like` button??:-(
E EvilLoof
06/01/2011 · 06:07 AM
yea bring on the improved SARS and H1N1 :P
H HoneyBucket{HH}
06/01/2011 · 06:05 AM
Well maybe us killing off the human race will be best for the environment, since we are doing so much damage to it. Once we kill ourselves off, the earth will be able to more effectively heal itself. So maybe we should do everything we can to speed up the process. Just a though.
F Freelancer
06/01/2011 · 05:14 AM
You know like those old car crash movies, where they actually show real bodies in pieces, might make some people sick to their stomachs but its what happens when your a bad driver. SPLAT. Anyhow point is i agree with OpvsDei, we need to do more to help the locally and globally even if its just the small everyday things. Some countries dont even have fresh water, and some power shower with mask on cause the water is so polluted, lesser/weaker animals die, the food chain gets smaller. We have a better chance of killing ourselves as a people than some massive disaster killing all life on earth. We`re just doing it slower and our population and consumption rate is only speeding that up.
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